A Religious Liberal Blog

This site hopefully can provide some vehicle by which I can comment, complain, and once in a while praise the state of religion in this country and around the world from a liberal protestant perspective.

Friday, June 27, 2008

Opening for GLBT ordination?

I haven't been following the Presbyterian Church USA as often as I should. I was surprised that the General Assembly voted today to drop the prohibition of GLBT non celibate clergy.

The removal of the prohibition is a change of the constitution which requires support from PCUSA's regional bodies called presbyteries. I'm not sure that the support is sufficient in these presbyteries but the last time we've had a discussion like this was 2001, so we'll see.

From the AP: "The assembly also voted to allow gay and lesbian candidates for ordination to conscientiously object to the existing standard. Local presbyteries and church councils that approve ordinations would consider such requests on a case-by-case basis."

"That vote was an an authoritative interpretation of the constitution rather than a change to it, so it goes into effect immediately. This supersedes a ruling from the church's high court that said there were no exceptions to the "fidelity and chastity" requirement."

So the ordination of people called by God and their presbyteries in the PCUSA regardless of sexual orientation is here. How this affects the church conflicts in the PCUSA will be seen. But as for me, my respect for the PCUSA has significantly gone up today.


At 8:43 PM , Anonymous Drew said...

Further clarification is that for this to be a permanent piece of the consitution as it were, a majority of the 173 local presbyteries will have to vote to support over the next year. Check http://www.pres-outlook.com/ for further news and updates.

At 12:31 PM , Anonymous Dr. Ted Baehr said...

An open letter by “A Free Thinker” received at www.movieguide.org

Ted & Tom,

THE CULTURE-WISE FAMILY is propagandist religious nonsense and I won’t put a dime in your pocket to purchase it. As a self-described Free Thinker I find it abhorrent. And as a left-leaning Republican, I am not obligated to follow rules (thanks Mr. President and Mr. Rove!)

Many leftists call themselves atheists. It is ENTIRELY possible to be a true atheist. Atheists, Christians, Hindus, mice, birds, and fish all survive physically because they are subject to god-neutral, objective scientific principles in biology, chemistry and physics. They can safely get away with rejecting the Court Jester of the Sciences – theology.

Of course, they know that they can. We must respect them for it, emulate their efforts, and encourage their humanistic representations of Reality. These include atheism, relativism and egalitarianism. The "survival" of the human race is at stake – NOW is the time to send religion to the dustbin of history!

Julien Benda tried to call the humanists on their desertion of God with his book THE TREASON OF THE INTELLECTUALS, in 1928. He attempted to show that idolatry was responsible for the insane slaughter of WW I. We now know that it was the increased militarism of the major powers of Europe; the Triple Entente; the development (by Capitalist efforts!) of greater weapons of War; and the assassination of archduke Franz Ferdinand in 1914.

He warned that there would be more of the same if the people were not led back to God from nationalism and humanism. In hindsight, we see that Benda was way off the mark. Nationalism and patriotism are the main idolatrous faiths in whose name the deluded (9/11 frantic Americans?) try to destroy civilization (Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan). Religion itself is too idolatrous and, consequently, self-defeating and destructive.

The most devious and insidious idolatrous faith today is Capitalist-driven Christianity – see Ted Baehr and Tom Snyder shift nervously in their seats! It is a perverse twisting of the Founder's "all men are created equal" into something that they never intended it to be – a cash-cow for rich white men to scare simple folk into “the True faith”.

Becoming human is all about DNA, RNA, and evolutionary biology.

Egalitarianism has many pious names such as multiculturalism, diversity, and humanism. Whatever you call it, it is the future of Humanity. If we ignore it, if we berate it, if we try to stamp it out, we end ourselves.

True human civilization understands that “Jesus Christ” probably never existed; certainly was NOT a pleasant white male who spoke English; and did not rise from the dead like some convenient zombie. This Jesus myth does nothing to forward Human progress; but watch how “He” fills some men’s bank accounts!

Often, well-intentioned persons who consider themselves to be Christians try to reduce all religion to a "True Religion” and a “false theology” ( see www.movieguide.org as a great example!) . But religion is much more simple than they imagine it to be. Your religion is between you and your chosen imaginary ghost –or- no religion at all. It is NOT a basis for responsible government, nor a valid reason to prevent a woman from determining her own reproductive rights, or a reason to stop two loving humans from living together!

Religion is intended, by its founders, to scare the masses into obedience and to fuel the “leader” ‘s power base (see also, Pharaohs, and Billy Graham)

We must accept that the secular humanists promote a safe Neutrality that can disarm our world’s insane “religious arms race”. Religion has poisoned the most recent 6000 years of our 3 million year human history. Let us end it immediately! Welcome atheism and agnosticism into the so-called public square. We must turn against those syncophants who would use the so-called “True Religion” of far-Right American-Special Christianity to get themselves wealth, to launch attacks against the non-white non-Christians of the world, and to bring a facist theocracy to the world’s “greatest democracy” (not, not Sweden or Canada…America!) and suppress and repress the freedom to love whom we wish to love, and the freedoms of women and minorities.

At 10:27 AM , Blogger pinkunicorn said...

LGBT Priests? That's like Jewish Nazis.

LGBT people need to speak out against religion, not cuddle with their worst enemy.

At 10:21 AM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

Human Faith Religious of God (Rab)
Human faith religion starts from the premise of humanity which is more than a physical face and biological organism. It is the religious consciousness in which matter of human soul is in the prison camp of human body. It is a wisdom that can only be obtained from the nature of God. It is a stage of awareness where purity of living in the physical senses without bias. Human faith is the last stage of human evolution. The fundamental links in our spiritual and material evolution that changed us from violent to sober human being is the element of love. We believe this element of love was created before the universe for human evolution and it can not be separated from the soul .True love is part of human soul in which strong devotion is created for another soul in environment where matter meet. This element is not part of sexual desire nor matter of modernizations symbols of "Holy Pleasure" neither romance. This power of love is to teach respect of humanity .It is the power that controls the universe. When a baby cries the power of love force mother to nurse the baby. This is the same force when chicks open their eyes in the egg shell the same element forces them to use the beak to break the shell and fallow the mother nature. Human faith religious is a public school for humanity .The leisure of learning truth, honesty and freedom. It is the eminent brain for batter society and the library of knowledge. It is the sacred water of life that emerges with the seven colors of human diversity to dissolve racism. Human life is spiritual force of affirmations in which nine sisters are the museum of humanity. It is the religious in which muses is dedicated to the nine affirmation of human faith. The spiritual change from loneness to loveliness is based on love by giving unlimited trust in God (Rab). Human mind is miracle of Supreme Being when we struggle to boil it at luck warm temperature of wisdom to understand fundamental of life by reading (Rabi). The ever lasting stage of satisfaction for mind is to reach Supreme Being before death. The journey of memories can be pleasant with nine affirmations of human faith. We believe that it is time to joggle every conscious to show them that human mind is superior matter not material. The festival of life can be celebrated with wisdom of human faith knowledge once we realize that we all are part of the superior race. It advocates spiritual and moral principles on very high scales for the longest term in human history. Human faith is Adam's monotheistic faith and knows that God is the creator and overseer of the universe at all the time and all matters. It is time to modernize our faith by adopting true faith and educate mankind in accordance with basic principle of life. Our vision is to introduce true human religion by mobilizing communities and faiths around the world to improve people's lives .Our mission is to strength the bond of humanity (Rabi) by introducing human faith religion.


Rabi has many meaning in our language.
1. Rabi is Book of Human Faith.
2. Rabi is brain.
3. Rabi is humanity.
4. Rabi is our tongue

At 9:44 AM , Blogger Nevi said...

First of all, believers are not required to delve into revelation, for the keys to the seals,are given only to the holders.

But, so that you learn a little..The beast that rises out of the sea, and out of the land..are one and the same- OIL
If you calculate the number:
O = 15
I = 9
L = 12
The sum of these is 36 ..of which the 2 composites are 18 and 18 ,and herein, is hidden the 666..and 666 which let you know that the two references,are to one.

In this, you will also understand that OIL , is indeed ‘the weapon of mass destruction’ because you now see clearly the damage it causes across the nations…compared to what people tout as ‘nuclear’ the damage is much more widespread…this is not to say that nuclear power is not dangerous, or threatens the globe.

In knowing this small detail, you will become more aware of what not being able to buy or sell without the mark is. Knowing more than that, is unimportant,and really not allowed to the general believer, whos command it is, to worship the Lord, in simplicity and humble spirit.

Woe to those that fiddled with the scriptural content in some backroom, on a computer, to declare war and the same to all that pervert religion, to spread terror - The Lord is watching. Further woes to those in positions of power that are advised by meddlers in the divine code - All they have done is unlock the fury of the Almighty, because even now, if the Lord were not there to intercede for fools , a portion of the earth would now already be dead, in fact a day has passed where the world leaders could have been swallowed up by the earth, never to be seen again if the Almighty were in a slightly more irate mood , because the foolishness of world leaders is now rising up to the heavens. There are cures for many things, but incessant stupidity has no cure, and is an irritation to the Father. All world leaders , that are charged with leading, but do otherwise seal their own fates, and many will escape here…but have no concept that they will be destroyed fully, because they refuse to stand in awe of the Lord,and do right!

In understanding this, you will also understand that the mark is not something tangible, or applied only to persons..so, do not try to involve yourselves in literal meanings to the high cryptics of Revelation, for it occurs on too many levels for man to understand.

People that think they can ‘crack ‘the bible codings, have already doomed themselves to fates they dictated by their own actions..so, be aware in your readings of Scriptures. It is given , so that you have a general synopsis of God’s Plan , but is not there for any to delve into, or to try to meddle with.

There is no command necessary, other than for you to believe in Jesus Christ, only begotten Son of the Almighty. Revelation unfolds in the lives of billions, without any really knowing..

Bible scholars,and theologians are lead, to give the best translation into languages understandable to mankind, but none should suppose to assign ‘meaning’ , for those things are given, only at their assigned times, by the Lord.

Even the seals,and holders of the keys, are only allowed access at their pre set designation in time, and not as man defines time, for man has no concept of time,as designated by the Almighty.

You have no need to worry about chips being inserted in your heads or all such physicalities. Those that propogate such explanations to things they do not know, also fall in danger of unnecessary judgements.

The command is simple..Live your life under the authority of the Lord,and obey the basic commands in simplicity, and you have the Mark of the Lamb not only on your forehead, but written in your heart. Keep yourself from senseless debates on the unknown, and prevent the loss of your tongues.

All that you see in the world, isn’t , and neither is all that you don’t see. Because you do not see the fiery anointing of the Lord across the earth, does not mean it is nonexistent.

As you see the morons,and even believers of the world deceived by ‘aliens’ and ‘ufo’s , remember who has the power to deceive,and is the master and prince of the air,and airwaves. Years and years of preparation, have allowed the minds of those that wish for delusion, to be deluded…and in fact, God will allow that as it is written, because a huge part of the earth will be deceived because of their need to see what seems ’supernatural’…to the believer, all you need do, is remain focused on the simple command given,and this will pass over you.

You , on this earth, are made in the image of the Creator of the Universe and there is no intellect given into any physical creation, more than given to mankind..but for those that wish to imagine their inferiority to other ‘beings’- then that is what they are. Yes, even the supposedly intelligent,and learned will fall prey to deception.

Have peace in your day, and remember the simple command you are given.

The iron laws of the Almighty, are not open to ‘modernistic interpretations’ to suit dysfunctional situations. The sword, goes out to all that shall meet, discuss, twist and adjust the commands of the Lord, to suit their own purposes on the earth. These have all bowed to the deceiver, and will follow in his footsteps,and share the judgements. Yes, the Sword of the Lord, is now at the church, and all that seek to redefine its purpose. The command, is given to all, that shall have questionable behaviour , as opposed to the law. The command, is not there to be questioned, or moulded to ‘modern living’. It is stated, and given by the ‘I AM’ for all. Defiance, is treated with warning first, as warning precedes judgement. So, as no correction has come from warning, the judgement of the Lord, falls upon the church and will be in full effect, soon.

It would be safer for all those leaders,and bishops to extract themselves from their acquired status, and join the queues of the sinful, who have humility before the Lord,and ask for forgiveness, than to stand in the pulpits and purport to do the Will of God,and thereby evoke the fury of the Lord. In this time, a judgement has already been laid down for all these, which will be effected throughout all the world, for all to see in time.

Again, have peace in your day if you find correction..but worry, if you are told,and do not turn from your path.

Be careful, if you propose to render your own futile judgement against the Lord, and do not confuse hat people do 'In the Name of God' with the Lord Himself. You presume to find yourself some kind of a 'wit', if the letters pertaining to doctorates and phd's etc precede or follow your given name , but its wiser to think of yourself as stripped bare, in the eyes of God , because your titles,and honors mean nothing at that level.

Do not think that because you propose to judge God, by the actions of a few, that your supposedly 'leftist'ideals absolve you from the laws of God.

If you have a problem with men, that pervert the laws of divinity, then its fine to attack those , but be careful when you begin to call the Lord, a 'myth' and some kind of nonexistence because of your own lack of spiritual integrity that you might find comfortable to expound as what you deem a 'free thinker' because like many,all that oppose the Lord, in thought and deed , will be routed , never to rise again from the dust that they all become.

You may be wiser to make decisions in things that are tangible to you,and things that you can see, rather than expounding your opinion, on things that you cannot see, or have zero inclination to understand.

Perhaps the most mystical thing, is that atheists and free thinkers that oppose the existence of the Almighty, expound on opinions from the height of social standing,and general comforts, but even these, in situations of life threatening self adversities, find themselves looking for the same God they defy.

All your human wit,and perceived intelligence, is piddly in the eyes of the Almighty God, that knows the content of every molecule known,and unknown to mankind,and even the dust that rises up to acknowledge God, is in higher esteem than all that seek to defy the existence of the supreme Almighty.


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