A Religious Liberal Blog

This site hopefully can provide some vehicle by which I can comment, complain, and once in a while praise the state of religion in this country and around the world from a liberal protestant perspective.

Sunday, May 27, 2007

No Comment


At 11:38 AM , Blogger Jonathan said...


Let's see what else could have (and should have) been put in. Jesus may not have said it, but if you don't see the Bible as the word of God, than why do you accept any of it?

Jesus, after speaking to the prostitute: "Go now and leave your life of sin." -John 8:11
The Apostle Paul.
"But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people." -Ephesians 5:3

The Apostle Paul, speaking to the Corinthians, a people known for their "questionable practices" in their culture.
"Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own; you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body." -1 Corinthians 6:19-20

David, in praise to God.
"For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb." -Psalm 139:13
see also: Job 1:21, Psalm 22:9, Psalm 22:10, Psalm 72:6, Ecclesiastes 11:5

John, writing Revelation through God's inspiration.
"I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. 12His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron scepter."[a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS. The rest of them were killed with the sword that came out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh." -Revelation 19:11-16,21

Paul, to the Roman Church in the hub of the world government.
"Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God...For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrong-doer." -Romans 13:1,3-4

The picture is titled: The pain: when will it stop? Ironic.

It is sad that someone would equate swindlers and the "God Hates Fags" cult with conservative Christians.

When will THAT pain stop?

At 12:01 PM , Blogger Dwight said...

I do hold the Bible as containing the Word of God. But I also believe that other things contain the Word too including nature, etc.

I find no disagreement with the passages you quote about sexual immorality though I don't see how that identifies with the right's campaign against gay and lesbians.

If the right doesn't want to be linked with such campaigns, that's great. Disavow such groups and practices and join us in working for equality, etc.

As for war, you're not suggesting that Revelation is a template on how you and I should act are you? That's a divine end of history story not a program for us.

I think the cartoon is descriptive of how often Jesus is potrayed in our culture, by many of his defenders which is a shame. Because in the Gospels you get a Jesus who doesn't easily fit into our categories.

At 1:00 PM , Blogger Ed said...

It is sad that the term "conservative Christians" exists, with the term "conservative" expected to simultaneously describe political and theological tenets.

At 1:19 PM , Blogger Jonathan said...

Definitely didn't connect to homosexuality, and neither did the verse mentioned. My point was to illustrate that Christ didn't accept what she did, but forgave her and asked her to change her ways. There are many other verses that speak on homosexuality, but that wasn't my reason for posting the John and Ephesians verses.

No, no, we don't need to ride white horses and such. But again, my point was to illustrate that Christ does not view the act of war as wrong. War can be fought for wrong reasons, but war in and of itself is not seen as wrong by God, and there are countless verses to back that up.

Can you give me an example where mainstream conservative Christian (AGH! I used that TERM again!) leadership accetped Fred Phelps or the smoking pot for God? Right, of course they haven't. Christian periodicals have written many articles on these topics (bongs for Jesus, the Phelps gang), and they obviously speak out against them. That was actually how I became aware of these groups in the first place.

I do agree with the BASIC premise of the cartoon: we cannot fit Christ into our culture...but we don't have to. He has lived through what we have, and he doesn't need to change. He is constant.

And Ed,

Conservative refers to holding to original or fundamental ideas. That happens to apply to the general political and religious views of those kinds of Christians.

Christians that tend to hold to a literal interpretation of the Bible also tend to be conservative in their politics.

BUT that doesn't mean that is always the case, and conservative does not HAVE to be all encompassing. A conservative Christian may be one or the other (literal, politics).

I don't think that is a sad term, as you seemed to see it as...certainly no more so than being a religious liberal, right?

At 1:49 PM , Blogger Dwight said...

I wasn't thinking of Phelps, but the Family Research Council which has been an untirng advocate for discrimination and they are linked to your blog.

I agree with you that the call for transformation is central to the Gospel. As for labels, they are a tricky mindfield. Helpful sometimes but not always.

Ed and Jonathan
Hope that your Memorial Day has been good. While I can't be with family today I will likely avoid the heat and be with my cats this day.

At 2:57 PM , Blogger Jonathan said...

Happy Memorial right back at ya...what's wrong with the FRC? I'd love for you to point that out, as I am curious.

At 1:53 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

What is wrong with the FRC is that they do really shoddy research, research easily picked apart by anybody with even an undergraduate background in research methods, and then they publicize their results knowing full well that the general public and the politicians will eat up what they "found." They do this knowing better. They have people with solid backgrounds in methodology and statistics. So they are lying. And that is evil.

At 1:57 PM , Anonymous Anonymous said...

"if you don't see the Bible as the word of God, then why do you accept any of it?"

Hm.... maybe because the Bible itself tells us that Jesus is the Word, not a book? Maybe because Jesus is recorded as having said that he would send a Holy Spirit, not a book? Maybe because there are many many writings that teach me and help me grow without being 100% without error, but I don't toss out the whole thing in disgust, demanding a black and white easy approach to discovering truth? Yes, it takes trust to believe that God can work in our lives and carry on God's story in our lives without a perfect text that we can point to to prove how right we are and how wrong others are. Yes, it is a much more challenging approach to this thing called faith. It is also far more rewarding once the fear subsides.


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