A Religious Liberal Blog

This site hopefully can provide some vehicle by which I can comment, complain, and once in a while praise the state of religion in this country and around the world from a liberal protestant perspective.

Sunday, June 18, 2006

Close Gitmo

Conditions at Guantanamo are in the news with the suicide of three prisoners. Such an event was "foreseeable in light of the harsh and prolonged conditions of their detention, and reinforces the need for the urgent closure of the detention centre"

The US response to the suicides? “Martyr operations are a form of terrorism." As one person noted at Republic of T: "That’s what the Romans said about the Christians." Are we the new Rome? How does the church respond to such a reality?


At 9:44 PM , Blogger Big Red Lance said...


I will respectfully disagree with your take on Gitmo. Even if the Gitmo deaths were the fault of the US, having Gitmo still saves more lives than it takes.

The people in Guantanamo Bay are not choir boys. They are suspected sworn enemies of the US. Let's not forget that.

At 5:50 AM , Anonymous Tim said...

And that's exactly the attitude I despise, `big red lance'.

If the US is so great, you'd think the same justice-system would work for the inmates there as anyone else. No "anomalies" required (to use Bliar's word for it).

Try them or let 'em go. Simple. You've said it yourself, and none of us have forgotten, this `suspected sworn enemies' business. So *find out for sure* and move accordingly. Anything less is unjust.

At 4:12 PM , Blogger Kathy O'Leary said...

Lance, according to your posting you don't know if these are really our enemies as you refer to them as "suspected sworn enemies". What does that mean. I can say that I suspect that you are a republican who voted for George Bush and you are not very well read, but that does not make it so. Besides that would be allowing my predjudices to overtake my reasoning. Most of the detainees have not had a hearing yet. Besides several have been released because the government admitted that they were not a threat. It is easy to say better safe than sorry as long as it isn't you sitting in a jail cell with no chance to prove your innocence or for as it should be for the goverment to prove your guilt.

At 10:07 PM , Blogger Big Red Lance said...

At the last minute, I threw in "suspected" as a way of saving my arse (from an argument standpoint).

I would imagine that there may be a very small number of people who are in Gitmo even thought they are completely innocent.

But let's be realistic. These men have been captured on the battlefield (and other places) while trying to take American lives.

The imprisonment of a handful of few innocents does not justify shutting down the prison and letting go many sworn enemies of our nation. (And by "sworn enemies," I'm talking about definite sworn enemies, not suspects)

p.s. and for the record, I'm fairly well-read, even for a conservative.

At 12:41 PM , Anonymous Tim said...

Your `suspected' might have been intended as an ass-saver, but I don't see it being all that unrealistic.

The solution is always: try them, find out one way or another, get a formal court to pass an appropriate sentence and have them either serve it or let go accordingly.

The risk you're neglecting to consider is that folks will return to their home countries with a grudge to bear against the US. While this might not push someone over the edge, it might feasibly be fuel for a terrorist to incite people to join their cause.

In addition, the illegality and immorality of torture methods chosen there set the whole camp down the wrong line from the start. Play clean or refrain from pointing the finger at others.


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